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An Outline for a Discussion on the Subject of “How and from Where Does the Spirit Soul Fall Down to the<\/p>\n
Material\u00a0 World?”<\/p>\n
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by\u00a0 Suhotra\u00a0 Swami<\/p>\n
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less\u00a0 a\u00a0 waste\u00a0 of\u00a0 time\u00a0 (vide\u00a0 letter\u00a0 to\u00a0 Upendra,\u00a0 27\u00a0 Oct.\u00a0 1969).<\/p>\n
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not\u00a0 completely\u00a0 reject\u00a0 it,\u00a0 either.<\/p>\n
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of\u00a0 L.A.\u00a0 around\u00a0 8\u00a0 years\u00a0 ago.<\/p>\n
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He is thus called a santa-rasa-bhakta.” (C.C. Madhya 19.214) C. We fell directly from a full-blown rasa in the<\/p>\n
spiritual\u00a0 world\u00a0 (our\u00a0 constitutional\u00a0 position).<\/p>\n
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above).<\/p>\n
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overlooks\u00a0 much\u00a0 evidence\u00a0 Srila\u00a0 Prabhupada\u00a0 has\u00a0 given\u00a0 us.<\/p>\n
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only left with an appeal to the inconceivable – which is what the mayavadis do also. There’s no choice between maya and Krishna in Goloka that we know of or can conceive of. Goloka is not a marginal realm, it’s the absolute highest realm of God consciousness. In my mind there’s<\/p>\n
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I’m begging the question by preserving choice by restricting the examination to the marginal region where falldown is clearly possible, I ask – from where did the opportunity<\/p>\n
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and choice to fall down arise if we all begin automatically on the highest platform? Where is the choice to love Krishna if we all begin automatically in a loving rasa<\/p>\n
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with Him? Anyway, this seminar is not attempting to explain how we moved from a fully-devloped rasa with Krishna to<\/p>\n
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the marginal position, but it will discuss how the living entity fell from the spiritual world to the material world as Srila Prabhupada has given evidence.<\/p>\n
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bhaktas.<\/p>\n
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self-enjoyment:\u00a0 B.S.\u00a0 5.22,\u00a0 purport\u00a0 [IV.H];\u00a0 worshippers<\/p>\n
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of Hiranyagarbha merge with Brahma and go with him to Maha-purusha: S.B. 3.32.8, 3.32.10.<\/p>\n
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VII. Third chance, with Paramatma in human form: S.B. 4.29.4, purport.<\/p>\n
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Notes\u00a0 and\u00a0 Quotes\u00a0 for\u00a0 “Falldown”\u00a0 Seminar<\/p>\n
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is independent. For this reason, after the destruction of the material world, when there is again creation by the interaction of the material modes of nature, Brahma<\/p>\n
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comes back. Although Brahma reaches the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the first purusa incarnation, Maha-Visnu,<\/p>\n
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who is full with transcendental qualities, he cannot stay in the spiritual world.”<\/p>\n
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an\u00a0 accident;\u00a0 one\u00a0 who\u00a0 has\u00a0 entered\u00a0 Vaikutna\u00a0 never\u00a0 falls\u00a0 down.<\/p>\n
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purport.<\/p>\n
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yogis\u00a0 as\u00a0 santa-bhaktas.<\/p>\n
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instance, are still attempting to become God, despite their knowledge and philosophy…The attempt to become God is<\/p>\n
the\u00a0 original\u00a0 sin,\u00a0 the\u00a0 beginning\u00a0 of\u00a0 sinful\u00a0 life.”<\/p>\n
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or Gokula. By her grace individual souls who are constit-uents of the marginal potency can have admission into even those pastimes. The deluding energy who is of the nature of the perverted reflection of the spiritual (cit) potency, has got her location on the other side of the river Viraja, which surrounds the Brahma-dhama forming the boundary of Maha-Vaikuntha as the outer envelope of Goloka.”<\/p>\n
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particles emanating from the oversoul in the form of pencils of rays of effulgence, have no relation with the mundane world when they come to know themselves to be the eternal servants of the Supreme Lord. They are then incorporated into the realm of Vaikuntha. But when they desire to lord it over Maya, forgetting their real identity, the egoistic principle Shambhu entering into their entities makes them identify themselves as separated enjoyers of mundane entities. Hence Shambhu is the primary principle of the egoistic mundane universe and of perverted egotism in jivas that identitifies itself with their limited material bodies.”<\/p>\n
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potency with His inactive nonspiritual potency. This is known as Yogamaya. It carries a twofold notion, namely, transcendental notion and mundane inert notion. Krishna Himself, His subjective portions and those jivas who are His unalloyed separated particles, realize the transcend-ental notion in that conjuction, while conditioned souls feel the mundane inert notion.”<\/p>\n
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it is not that one must fall down, but that they generally fall down.”<\/p>\n
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he cant be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned.”<\/p>\n
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his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence.”<\/p>\n
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“Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krishna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krishna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krishna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anethetized state, therefore they do<\/p>\n
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not remember being with Krishna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs.”<\/p>\n
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Opening\u00a0 Arguments\u00a0 for\u00a0 2nd\u00a0 Day\u00a0 of\u00a0 Seminar<\/p>\n
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by reviewing the basics in a different way, and then go to some fundamental considerations that are at the bottom of the whole controversy.<\/p>\n
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2.Maybe we thought we were brahman only; maybe by all our endeavors of research, speculation, meditation, religiousity or whatever that is all we can realize. But now He has come to tell us – you are a fallen servant of Krishna. This is the ultimate reality.<\/p>\n
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is naturally attracted by those qualities. Furthermore, the Lord is attracted by the dependence of the living entity. But as the Lord does not need the living entitiy, as the living entity needs the Lord, the Lord reserves<\/p>\n
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the right to remain aloof should the living entity make an inordinate demand of the Lord.<\/p>\n
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quality” when it is surrendered to Krishna. Hrd Goswami’s class – guhyad-guhyataram (do your duty for me), then sarva-guhyatamam – manmana bhava mad bhakto…<\/p>\n
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That propels the soul to loving relationships even beyond those enjoyed by Narada or even Laxmi. That is proper use of tatastha quality – voluntary surrender. By this one can purchase Krishna.<\/p>\n
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of\u00a0 the\u00a0 spiritual\u00a0 world.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Tatashta\u00a0 is\u00a0 a\u00a0 great\u00a0 advantage<\/p>\n
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in\u00a0 winning\u00a0 Krishna’s\u00a0 love.<\/p>\n
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VII. Arguments for soul’s do not jump into maya: healthy tissue, disease tissue.<\/p>\n
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VIII.\u00a0 Arguments\u00a0 for\u00a0 basis\u00a0 of\u00a0 Lord’s\u00a0 decision.<\/p>\n
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devotees are “beacons to show the way” (how to surrender, how to use independence in Lord’s service). Mundane example of Gopal Ban. Using independence only to please – it’s<\/p>\n
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not slavery, it’s perfection (way of looking at the same thing).<\/p>\n
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The answer is, so that we can aspire to become perfect, by surrendering our jewel quality – that’s what captures Krishna’s attention. Even if we fall down, the Lord is<\/p>\n
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so anxious to have us back so that He can enjoy that jewel quality that He displays such wonderful lilas here in material world. We should also remember that it’s not that we must fall down – it’s always a matter of our own choice. Krishna didn’t manifest the jiva with the purpose in mind that he should fall down. Krishna wants to simply enjoy that jewel quality of voluntary surrender.<\/p>\n
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c.Yogamaya is also curious about them. “Why are he so interested in the Lord but having difficulties with Me? Maybe he wants to be the Lord (iswara sayuja). Let’s test by offering a shakti for him to control and enjoy.”<\/p>\n
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do\u00a0 we\u00a0 say,\u00a0 “No,\u00a0 only\u00a0 that\u00a0 Bhaktivedanta!”<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
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